Author Topic: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning  (Read 3310 times)

Online Huzo

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'07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« on: June 09, 2018, 04:45:09 AM »
My '07 Norge has had a new stepper motor fitted at 70,000 or so k's. This was because the original had become contaminated from general use and possible minor overfilling of engine oil, before I was taught not to.
Also I'm reliably assured that at 150,000 k's, my TB's will not be in the first flush of youth cleanliness wise either.
Pete GAVE me a brand new stepper which has now done 80,000 k's and the dreaded symptom of slightly erratic idle, has again started to rear it's ugly head.
I certainly do not now overfill as I used to.
 I get the 4litre bottle of Motul, decant off 400 ml, and arse up with the remaining 3,600 ml into the donk.
But here's the thing..
Has anyone successfully de constructed and cleaned the stepper such as the one in mine, or is it possible to do an effective clean without pulling the whole unit to bits, (if that's actually possible at all.)
Also.
What is the correct way to properly clean the TB's without rooting up the balance work Pete did..?
Finally, if I'm really careful, can I safely undo the sacred screw and clean the threads if I get it back fairly close..?  :violent1: :boxing: :evil:
« Last Edit: June 09, 2018, 04:47:34 AM by Huzo »

Offline acogoff

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2018, 08:39:07 PM »
    As no one seems to answer, I'll throw in my 2cents worth.  Don't know about your norge, but when my ford pickup starts the erratic idle bit, 75% of the time the stepper is fine and the 'puter just needs to be reset by disconnecting the neg. batt. cable for a while and then reconnect. But then apples and oranges by comparison.
'77850t3FB Owned since it was new
Marshall County Minnesota USA

Offline Thunderbutt

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2018, 08:59:13 PM »
Sold my Norge so I can't just walk out to garage for a look see so I'm am trying to remember how everything is assembled.
Can you disconnect the T/B from the air box, remove the low sped air fuel screws and spray them with throttle/carb cleaner? Use the carb spray on every orifice you can see.  I was amazed how much crud came out of the throttle bodies on my '02 LeMans using this method. 
Sure beats taking them off the bike to do basicly the same thing.
Current rides: 2000 V-11 Sport-SOLD, 2003 Aprilia Mille Haga Replica #125, 1975 Triumph T160, 2002 LeMans, 2008 Norge aka the silver bullet

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 09:46:19 PM »
Because my knowledge base is so thin, I dare not and will not alter anything concerning the TB's.
I kind of imagined that they may come off as a unit still linked together and be cleanable like that. I've seen what can happen if you root around with these things whenever you're relatively clueless, so I'm just gathering anecdotal evidence.
(I think that's the word...)

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2018, 09:46:19 PM »

pete roper

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2018, 10:05:58 PM »
Because my knowledge base is so thin, I dare not and will not alter anything concerning the TB's.
I kind of imagined that they may come off as a unit still linked together and be cleanable like that. I've seen what can happen if you root around with these things whenever you're relatively clueless, so I'm just gathering anecdotal evidence.
(I think that's the word...)

They can just be removed as you suggest. As long as you don't fiddle with the stop screw or linkage joints it will be just fine. WRT the stepper if you think its gummed up just disconnect the hose to the airbox while its running and spray some carb/TB cleaner down the hose. It helps if you have Guzzidiag as you can cycle the stepper while doing this which will help dislodge the crud and mank.

Pete

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2018, 02:11:58 AM »
They can just be removed as you suggest. As long as you don't fiddle with the stop screw or linkage joints it will be just fine. WRT the stepper if you think its gummed up just disconnect the hose to the airbox while its running and spray some carb/TB cleaner down the hose. It helps if you have Guzzidiag as you can cycle the stepper while doing this which will help dislodge the crud and mank.

Pete
Thank you Pete.
My glamorous assistant ran a hacksaw over the buggered one that you replaced for me, opened it up and could clearly see the part of the bore where the "piston" travels.
Armed with this knowledge, I removed the good one and gave it one up the jacksie with TB cleaner a few times and gently blew it out.
Then hooked up the plug and cycled the ignition switch and the stepper responded sweetly. Thanks all as always.

« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 03:48:23 AM by Huzo »

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2018, 03:47:02 AM »
Seems like as soon as you get the answer to one question, you are slammed with a few more.
I've read that some owners have put a tap or valve in the air supply to the stepper instead of addressing the primary cause of the errant stepper, which I now have.
However.
After cleaning and replacing the stepper I thought I'd try a little something..
I placed a plug in the hose that usually goes back to the air box and blanked off the spigot in the 'box.
 I then put the whole lot back together with a fundamentally isolated stepper other than the electrical plug. The motor was stone motherless cold and fired up immediately settling into a steady 1100-1200 rpm idle. I followed this up with a bit of a ride and the engine dropped back to a steady idle every time.
Clearly this is leading to the point where I ask..
Given that the engine fires up from dead cold and behaves normally essentially without the intervention of the stepper, is there disaster awaiting me if I operate the bike without it ?
Does the stepper perform any other function other than regulation of the idle speed ?
Obviously, the dreaded triangle appears if the ignition is switched on with the electrical plug disconnected, but after plugging that in, the whole shooting match behaved beautifully.
Am I courting disaster..?

[Edit]...
Pete, I just read your post over on Guzzitech and hasten to add that I do not have enough knowledge in this to hold a solid opinion of any sort, but I'll leave my question up since it's asked in good faith, but will certainly be guided by yours or other's informed opinion.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 04:08:41 AM by Huzo »

Offline molly

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2018, 04:26:37 AM »
I rode my old 1200 Breva for 15,000 miles with the stepper motor only turned on for cold starts with no problems.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 04:27:28 AM by molly »
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

Offline ohiorider

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2018, 05:06:14 AM »
I rode my old 1200 Breva for 15,000 miles with the stepper motor only turned on for cold starts with no problems.
Dave, did you use an on/off valve in the air hose to enable/disable the stepper?  I recall seeing some owners doing just that, back when I first purchased my 12S.

Bob
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
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Offline molly

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2018, 05:27:03 AM »


Dave, did you use an on/off valve in the air hose to enable/disable the stepper?  I recall seeing some owners doing just that, back when I first purchased my 12S.

Bob

Yes i did.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 05:30:50 AM by molly »
Dave

Lincolnshire, U.K.

Griso 1100

pete roper

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2018, 06:34:58 AM »
Yes, you can isolate the stepper. Then it will run pig rich at idle with all of the associated problems.

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2018, 05:25:32 PM »
Yes, you can isolate the stepper. Then it will run pig rich at idle with all of the associated problems.
Ok and this was my question.
Again there's no free lunch, I will be introducing another problem (or issue), if I try for a half arsed solution.
I'm gunna' hook it up now as standard and see how it goes after that shot up the blurted with the cleaner.
Thanks one and all.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 05:27:08 PM by Huzo »

Offline ohiorider

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2018, 05:43:14 PM »
Yes, you can isolate the stepper. Then it will run pig rich at idle with all of the associated problems.
Pete, it would be interesting to know how rich 'pig rich' is.  Has anyone stuck an o2 sensor up the pipe to get an actual reading when the stepper motor is deactivated, or is the buildup of carbon deposits the indicator of overly-rich?

Bob
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
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pete roper

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2018, 06:14:03 PM »
Either Mark or one of his alpha testers tried it and the afr’s at idle were horrible. I’ll ask for details on Friday when he’s over picking up his Griso.

Offline ohiorider

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2018, 08:30:26 PM »
Either Mark or one of his alpha testers tried it and the afr�s at idle were horrible. I�ll ask for details on Friday when he�s over picking up his Griso.
As always, thanks for your willingness to provide additional information. 

Regards,

Bob
Main ride:  2008 Guzzi 1200 Sport (sold July 2020)
2012 Griso 8v SE (sold Sept '15)
Reliable standby: 1991 BMW R100GS
2014 Honda CB1100 (Traded Nov 2019)
New:  2016 Triumph T120 (Traded Dec 2021)
New:  2021 Kawasaki W800

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #15 on: June 10, 2018, 08:35:02 PM »
As always, thanks for your willingness to provide additional information. 

Regards,

Bob
Damn right Bob.
Just for the record. I've reassembled the bike with everything in place and the flushed stepper seems to be spot on fine.
I'll take it out and see what gives...

Online Huzo

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Re: '07 Norge stepper and TB cleaning
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2018, 03:42:02 AM »
Yeah well that went fine.
Celebrated 150,000 k with a quiet long black...(coffee that is.. :rolleyes:)
Only 50,000 to go..!
Anyway, stepper is very good and wasn't even a big job. I didn't have the guts to do what I'd seen suggested in a couple of posts, (start bike and give it a dose while running), I just wasn't enamoured with  the thought of loosened impurities going into the motor, although in the grand scheme of things probably not a big issue.
But for now it's a done deal.
Thanks all and sundry.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 03:43:03 AM by Huzo »

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